X32 as a control surface?

spadrille · Post by **spadrille** » Sat Jun 14, 2014 6:22 am

Does someone ever tried to use the Behringer X32 as a control surface for LX Console? Using the X32 in daw remote mode would be so nice. Using some buttons to select blocks of channels, the faders for... well fade the lights, and the LCD strip to know what channels you are using. I really don't know how to set it for this but it seems that it's technically possible, isn't it?

Post by **admin** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 2:57 pm

This is a video of a cue running on LXConsole with its up/down progress mapped to two faders on a Yamaha 01V96i, which appears to be similar to a Behringer X32.

http://youtu.be/5eBPS7nhJlk

The specifics of the cue in the video are set up in the advanced tab of the drawer, editing the cue in "cues" mode, not "live". There are two actions added to the cue. One maps the up progress of the cue to control change 5. On the Yamaha, this control change is mapped to the 5th fader. The second cue action maps the down progress of the cue to control change 6, controlling the 6th fader. When the cue runs, the faders move.

Using MIDI in and out it is possible to map control changes to any number of controls in LXConsole. Control changes do not need to be tied to cue actions, they can also be assigned to things like sub-masters. You do that in the setup window's MIDI tab.

Perhaps someone can help with the specifics of how to do this with the Behringer X32? The details needed are how to find and setup the control changes for the various things you want to link on the mixer and LXConsole.

spadrille · Post by **spadrille** » Wed Jun 18, 2014 3:02 pm

Thank you for the answer. As the LX console use Scribble strip which is a mini LCD screen per fader showing what is assigned to this fader, is this possible for LX Console to send the channel number?

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Thu May 28, 2015 3:56 pm

Does anyone know if someone has sorted all of this out?

I'd love to be able to use, say, the second bank of faders as control surfaces for lxConsole.

I'm willing to make this a project - but if someone else has already done the work, that would be even better!

Post by **admin** » Fri May 29, 2015 4:02 pm

It should not be too difficult to make the X32 control LXConsole. The documentation for the X32 MIDI implementation is here: http://www.behringer.com/assets/X32_MID ... -06-04.pdf
(There is no way with MIDI to set the text of the scribble strip as asked about in the previous post) But, otherwise, the procedure is the same as for using any MIDI controller to control LXConsole.

The connection between the X32 and the Mac requires some kind of standard MIDI (from the output on the X32) to USB interface (into the Mac). Then, in LXConsole's preferences MIDI tab, you select that interface for the MIDI input popup and turn it on in the File->External menu.

Going to the MIDI tab of the setup window, you click the detect button. Then, move a fader that you want to use to control LXConsole. This will send a control change message and should appear in the setup window.

Click the + button to add a MIDI action corresponding to the control change. Then, in the table you need to tell LXConsole what to do when it gets this message. There's a combo box with templates for many possible actions. Your top choices are probably going to be controlling a submaster or an individual channel. To control the level of submaster two, use "SUB-2". To control the level of channel five use "5@%v".

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Sat May 30, 2015 11:36 pm

Thank you! I have the beginnings of this working nicely! I am always impressed by the power and flexibility of LXConsole.

Three quick questions.

First, might there be a way that I could import and export the MIDI mapping? I'd like to be able to easily import it into multiple LXConsole documents.

Second - that this might be related - is there a way that I could edit this mapping from outside of LXConsole. I need to map 64 faders to begin, and it would be nice if I could do so in a text editor and then import it back into LXConsole.

Finally (for now, at least) - Is there a way that I could map a MIDI input to the appropriate commands to save a cue? Can I map any MIDI input to any arbitrary command?

And if so...what commands do you suggest? Save a cue, of course, Select the previous/next cue? Edit the current cue and resave it? I don't know enough about physical light consoles to know what I should have!

Thanks again.

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Sat May 30, 2015 11:51 pm

Ah, I found import and export. Sorry about that.

And since it is a nice XML file, I can edit it. Working on the faders now...

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Sun May 31, 2015 11:19 pm

I have the 64 faders working nicely.

But I'm a little stuck, imagining how to select cues and to save cues and times.

I could do that with the keyboard, of course - but it would be very cool if it could be entered from the X32 itself.

The X32 has a set of user definable functions which can be attached to 4 dials and 8 buttons. Any MIDI commands can be associated with each of them.

What if LXConsole had a custom input window - something like the virtual keyboard - which could be controlled from those user definable functions? I could imagine spinning one dial to select a cue, one to select time, and so on. Record could be associated with one of the buttons, and - well, I don't know what - to each of the others. Certainly Go and Forward and Back.

Might that be possible? Any interest?

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Sun May 31, 2015 11:35 pm

Apparently, on the X32 at least, it is possible to encode OSC commands and send them as MIDI sysex commands. So it should be possible - if you were interested - to set things like Scribble Strips and so on on the X32 from LXConsole.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/sysexoscgen/

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Mon Jun 01, 2015 3:58 pm

One more thought on this issue (for now, at least):

For this to work as well as it could, it would be helpful if LXConsole could send MIDI to the faders to restore their positions when a cue was recalled.

That way, the motorized faders on the X32 would move to their correct positions when a cue was selected, and it would be easy to tweak a cue by moving a fader slightly.

That seems fairly easy to do - but would, I believe, require updates to LXConsole.

Post by **admin** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 5:23 pm

LXConsole will send MIDI out reflecting channel levels. There are several conditions necessary for this to happen. First, External-> MIDI/Show Control Out must be enabled. Next, the channels must be associated with a control change in the MIDI tab of the setup window. For example, CC-1 must be mapped to "1@%v". (Any control change can be mapped to any channel but the format of the command needs to be <channel>@%v.) Finally, the Send Channel Change option must be enabled in the MIDI Out tab of the preferences. The result will be similar to that shown in the YouTube video in an earlier post to this thread.

You can map a button control change to "record:0" which will record the current live state as the next cue number.

You can also map a button control change to "record" to overwrite the current cue. But, this causes an overwrite warning alert. If you are absolutely sure you are willing to overwrite the current cue, the latest build of LXConsole (3.8.4) adds the OSC or MIDI action command "record!" which overwrites the current cue without any warning.

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Tue Jun 02, 2015 11:12 pm

Thanks for the reply.

And following your instructions, LXConsole does, indeed, control the motorized faders on the X32.

However:

There seems to be an odd feedback between the two, such that when I move the faders, there is a strange resistance. My guess is that the X32 is sending CC changes to LXConsole, which updating its levels - and LXConsole is immediately sending CC changes to the X32, which is trying to update the fader positions...all while I am trying to move the fader!

If I am correct, I wonder if there might be a way to detect that there is incoming CC data and not send updates until a second or whatever after they have stopped? Or some more clever approach?

I have some other questions and ideas...but let's start with this one.

Thanks again.

Post by **admin** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:15 am

Is there resistance when you move a single fader or when you try to move more than one at a time?

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 3:11 pm

Both.

If I move any fader or group of faders (except for Channel 1 - but that seems to be a different issue) I get this resistance. It is more extreme if I am moving the fader up than down, for some reason - but it is obvious in either direction.

(Channel 1 doesn't respond to LXConsole control at all. LXConsole responds to it - but that particular fader doesn't respond to input from LXConsole. That may be a configuration issue on my end...but I haven't tracked it down yet.)

timmrogers · Post by **timmrogers** » Wed Jun 03, 2015 5:07 pm

Unless I am making a basic mistake with LXConsole - which is certainly possible - I think that this feedback is also a problem when I try to recall cues.

If I go to Live and run a cue, the current fader positions on the X32 seem to override the saved settings in the cue.

What I would expect to happen is that, when I run a cue, LXConsole would move the fader on the X32 as the cue runs. At that point, it should listen to the X32 for any changes to the cue.

Does that make sense?